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Stone Mountain DH Fish

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Buffalo96
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

I just received an email from a fellow angler that fishes at Stone Mountain State Park. He mentioned that he has noticed a decrease in the population of trout that were put into the East Prong of the Roaring River back in October/November. Have any of guys noticed this?? I have been fishing the Davidson River more often than the Stone Mountain DH. I'm sure poaching is really a major key player in the disapperance of all of these fish... Mad
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Post by Lance Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:17 pm

Oh man, I was actually going to post this same topic. I may even write a email to the park. I frequent the park quit often as some of you know. In a span of about two weeks the river went from over a dozen in some holes to two yes two! It blew my mind. It has to be severe poaching, that or the state pulled some out for research. I may write that letter now and see if I can get to the bottom of it.

p.s. has the Mitchell had the same fate?
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:29 pm

I hate it. Poaching in NC is starting to get out of control in some places. I highly doubt the fish were displaced and washed downstream with all of the rain we've received, so poaching HAS to be the issue. I mean, trout are skilled in making it through high water and fast currents...


Last edited by Tyler on Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Buffalo96 Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:29 pm

The last time I went to the Mitchell, which was in early December, it was very sparse. I hooked two near the bridge but didn't see anymore the whole day.

I would hope that poaching in a state park would be difficult. The only time I have been checked in 4 years has been at Stone Mountain. Poaching really seems to be a huge problem. What can we do to fix it?
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:30 pm

I hate it. Poaching in NC is starting to get out of control in some places. I highly doubt the fish were displaced and washed downstream with all of the rain we've received, so poaching HAS to be the issue. I mean, trout are skilled in making it through high water and fast currents...
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:33 pm

Buffalo96 wrote:The last time I went to the Mitchell, which was in early December, it was very sparse. I hooked two near the bridge but didn't see anymore the whole day.

I would hope that poaching in a state park would be difficult. The only time I have been checked in 4 years has been at Stone Mountain. Poaching really seems to be a huge problem. What can we do to fix it?

You can't really do much unfortunately. You can call the NC Poacher hotline at 1-800-POACHER or 919-707-0030 to report any suspected poachers. A lot of them go out at night and fish pools out...
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 pm

Sorry about that Buffalo!! I accidentally commented onto your post, erasing what you wrote (have no idea how I did it...) I had to delete it (still trying to figure out this Forum thing) Embarassed Embarassed
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Post by Buffalo96 Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:18 pm

Not a problem. I was just commenting that River Otters can hit a trout population hard. But my money is still on poaching.
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:20 pm

Maybe it's the Mitchell River Monster that's eating all of the fish Shocked ...http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/mitchellrm/
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Post by Buffalo96 Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:34 pm

Are you kidding me?? The Mitchell is barely large enough to support trout, much less a river monster. Well, except for the pond near Knapps Mill. I have not seen a "Sasquatch" around that neck of the woods. However, a big hairy homonid running around might deter poaching. affraid Perhaps that is what we need..... unless they eat more fish than a River Otter.
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Post by Tyler Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:38 pm

That would be nice. I'm positive a sasquatch would fend off all poachers for years...It sure would scare the mess outta me if I came across one!!
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Post by Lance Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:29 pm

Ill see what the park says about the river. I have read some other posts about recent poaching on other DH streams like Wilsons Creek. I also think that this could be a great thing to bring up to TU. If we get a big enough voice maybe we can make some changes.
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Post by John Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:55 pm

Unfortunatly delayed harvest waters have always had to deal with this more than any. Opening and closing season is like ringing a dinner bell. Its so bad on Helton creek that many locals place no trespassing signs for the first few weeks until the slaughter fest ends then they take them down. Poaching is poaching however, I feel some get this label for a basic misunderstanding. I have met many on the stream with a bucket of worms or a rooster tail simply fishing. I often take a soft approach and strike up conversattion (if they appear the approaching type)then pass along the rules in a way I don't sound like the fish police, many just don't understand. I was simply rewarded when I ran into a guy later in the month with a fly rod and a handshake thanking me. Mentor, don't preach. These guys are harmless, you will find them only on sunny days wetting a line with a girlfriend spooking more fish than catching.

One common excuse that I have heard on Wilsons Creek and on the new trophy waters in Cherokee is that " I have fished these waters for 20 years" now they say I can't? its a justification in their eyes and the way they stick it to the man I guess. I consider these guys semi harmless as after a while, they get fined or bored with it and move down stream. Locals sometimes have a very passionate reason for not following the rules. Officer Abbey one of the Tribal wardens told me that they average 2,000 per month up there in violations. He stated its $100 for the rod, $100 for the bait and $50 per fish if caught. I actually seen a father and son get $500 worth "ouch".

The true blue poacher in my book without any excuses are the ones with cast nets, shockers and snag lines. I was personally involved last year with catching six (6) poachers snagging trout on Helton Creek with large trebble hooks on clothes line in the deep pools. Unlike a post I seen on another form who took pictures close up of them, I took pictures of the vehicle at a distance, gathered what intel (plate) I could and called the 800 number. Within minuets I get a call from the wardens cell phone. I passed on the info and exactly one week later, I drove by and seen all six sitting on the ground getting justice. I later spoke to the warden and he thanked me. One thing I highly advise is that don't get directly involved, honest to goodness poachers don't want to be caught and possibly carry weapons. We are not law enforcement, gather your intel and report it directly to the 800 number. Given more than likely they did not go to jail with such a backed up system and severity, for weeks while out alone I kept a close eye on my truck and over my shoulder, its not a good feeling. I am glad I never approached them. Taking pictures of a local boy catching a stocked trout and calling him a poacher might just get you a good ole country arse whoopin next time. It was an honorable thing to do but dangerous. A good friend of mine told me " Kids, their stocked fish, not a sacred wild fishery". We both hate poaching with a passion and are committed flyfishermen but he has a point, think about it.

Another thing to consider is the wardens budget, its not his/her fault on response. The state has cut back so much, their milage has been cut back and it was threatended that they may loose the state cell phones. They have been under a hiring freeze and have triple the ground to cover than years past. As far as rangers, one at stone mountain told me they don't care to check, when I asked why he stated they get to many complaints their harassing fishermen..go figue, sad but true. I don't think paying more for a fishing license would do it either, the past demonstrates that well enough. This years state budget is the worse I have seen, considerations for closing state hospitals, prisons, special programs and taking away positions just to name a few is making it hard all around.

Ahhh just my .10 take it or leave it however, be safe, I want to meet you on the stream one day to swap lies Very Happy
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Post by Lance Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:19 am

That is a great insight John. I know all to well about the cutbacks on wardens. I have been waiting for the accademy to open for two years. I find out this July what they are going to do.

As far as SMSP, I think maybe we could get some kind of patition and show that for the most part the truely passionate would rather be stopped every time than to have the river poached out. I would like to see rivers like the East Prong become a sustainable fisheries with a native population. I just dont see this happening if this continues.

I am trying to do an event with Nat Green Fly Fishers (Greensboro's TU chapter). I think this is a great topic to bring up when I talk to them. They may even be able to help sway the thinking of the park staff.
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Post by Tyler Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:13 pm

I think mentioning it to TU is well worth it. Something HAS to be done to stop all of the poaching.
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Post by Lance Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:56 am

I have recently read that people are also dissapointed in the way that Bull Head Creek is being taken care of. I dont know for sure but I hear that the park doesnt feed them anymore. I wonder if the TU got involved in that stream if they could restore it to the trophy waters it once was. I think maybe a couple stockings and some regular feeding may do the trick. What are your opinions on this topic. I just think that its sad to see such good waters (in a state park even)be so poorly cared for.
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Post by SBeane Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:40 am

Lance wrote:I have recently read that people are also dissapointed in the way that Bull Head Creek is being taken care of. I dont know for sure but I hear that the park doesnt feed them anymore. I wonder if the TU got involved in that stream if they could restore it to the trophy waters it once was. I think maybe a couple stockings and some regular feeding may do the trick. What are your opinions on this topic. I just think that its sad to see such good waters (in a state park even)be so poorly cared for.

I think they should keep it the way it is. I know of at least a couple beats that have good populations of wild browns and a few brookies. True, they aren't the huge fish of the past, but I'll gladly pay $15 to get away from the crowds and catch these all day...
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Post by Tyler Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:06 pm

Don't get me wrong, I love small fish, but when the sign on Bullhead Creek says "Trophy Trout Stream" and there's not a fish over 1 foot in sight, something's up... Question
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Post by SBeane Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:42 pm

I agree, it definetly shouldn't be designated as a trophy stream. Like some of you guys I would love to see it full of large, healthy fish but it just doesn't seem very feasible. If Bullhead was restocked, it would again be a target of the poachers. The wildlife guys seem to struggle with policing the DH in the park, I highly doubt they'd be willing to allocate additional resources to patrol another stream (especially one without a road paralleling it) and that would be nessecary to protect a "trophy" fishery.

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Post by Tyler Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:32 pm

I agree with ya Seth. Restocking Bullhead would just lead to poachers flocking to the area. It seems as if we need to establish a checkpoint booth at the entrance of all state parks. Fisherman can then be checked for licenses and possibly checked for illegal fishing equipment (treble hooks, bait, illegal creel limit, nets etc). Basically like going through customs at the airport (just not as detailed like TSA is right now).
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Post by SBeane Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:23 pm

yep...protect all the streams in the park at one time, I like it. It seems like all the park rangers' cars are at the visitor center all day, so it's not like it would be a huge hassle for them to man two gates. Now, if we could just get them to agree...

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Post by Tyler Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:24 pm

Getting them to agree is the hard part...
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Post by Lance Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:19 pm

Im not talking about regular stockings, Im saying that maybe a couple stockings to get numbers back up and then regular feedings would help the stream out. Or if it is decided that the numbers are doable then start the feedings to get them healthy and up to size. As far as checkpoints, I just dont see that happening. I think it realy just comes down to the rangers doing their job. I dont see why waters that are already in a controlled area with officers living there should have the problems that they are.
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Post by Lance Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:45 pm

I wrote and email to SMSP to inquire about the decreased numbers of fish in the DH waters. I cant wait to see what the explanation is.
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Post by Tyler Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:56 pm

NICE!! Can't wait to hear what they say.
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